Regarding Threads on Bitmain and ASIC Resistance (Mega Thread!)
Guys, Let’s take a minute to talk about what’s going on. We need to make sure all users are on the same page and the falsifications and assumptions stop. I'm with you, and I understand that you feel betrayed. However, cleaning up after the constant bickering for those pro-fork and those anti-fork is growing tiresome. It's time we have a civil discussion and talk about facts.
Timeline of events
On 03/31/2018, a user from Ethfans.org posted a video on Telegram of a supposed Ethash ASIC. The video made its way to /Etherminingin a thread. It is important to mention that these values can be modified by changing “get_miner_status.cgi” and “minerStatus.cgi” and that there has been no credible evidence that has popped up in the nine days following the release of the supposed leak. Additionally, the following abnormalities should be noted:
The prefix “F” (e.g.: “F3”) falls outside of Bitmain’s typical naming convention. Historically, any Bitmain ASIC will have a family identification (e.g.: “S”), followed by a release generation. For example, the SHA257 miner is “S5/S7/S9”, the Scrypt miner is “L3/L3+”, etc… It is very unlikely that Bitmain has decided to use “F” as the prefix in addition to “E”.
The label is off-kilter with typical Bitmain quality. It is of asymmetrical quality when compared to the existing labels of on other Antminers
Also on 3/31/2018, a user on Russian site Bits.media noticed that the pre-order for the Bitmain E3 was already up. It was believed to be an April fools joke; needless to say, it wasn’t. On 04/02/2018, Bitmain launched the E3 and began taking pre-orders for a June delivery. At that time, the price was $800 and promised a hashing power of 180MH/s at 800 watts. On 04/06/2018, Ethereum core developers decided against hard-forking Ethereum at this time, as they weren't convinced that it would positively impact the community given a hard-fork's disruption and the unknown of how the ASIC worked (specifically if it was programmable). The community became upset over broken promises of ASIC resistance, and this has since spread to a full out finger pointing of who is wrong. On 04/08/2018, an apparently forged photo showed up showing a higher-hashing ASIC with far less power consumption. This is not only very unlikely, but the link in the photo was gibberish, whereas the E3's link was valid. We're writing that one up as FUD.
The "ASIC Resistance" Argument
At this point, I think that it’s I think it's important that we visit some key points of the Ethereum project. A lot of people have been quoting the whitepaper, calling ETH ASIC-proof and implying that the developers do not care about the problem. In actuality, Ethereum never promised that it would be ASIC-proof, merely that it would provide an economic incentive to be resistant to the development of an ASIC. I'd like to produce a quote from the Ethereum Wiki, found here.
Ultimately, perfect ASIC resistance is impossible; there are always portions of circuits that are going to be unused by any specific algorithm and that can be trimmed to cut costs in a specialized device. However, what we are looking for is not perfect ASIC resistance but rather economic ASIC resistance.
The problem is that measuring an economy in a secure way is a difficult problem. The most obvious metric that the system has access to is mining difficulty, but mining difficulty also goes up with Moore's law and in the short term with ASIC development, and there is no known way to estimate the impact of Moore's law alone and so the currency cannot know if its difficulty increased by 10x due to better hardware, a larger user volume or a combination of both. Other metrics, such as transaction count, are potentially gameable by entities that want the supply to change in a particular direction (generally, holders want a lower supply, miners want a higher supply).
This is solidified by revisiting the whitepaper, specifically the section which identifies how ASICs will be economically stymied:
This model is untested, and there may be difficulties along the way in avoiding certain clever optimizations when using contract execution as a mining algorithm. However, one notably interesting feature of this algorithm is that it allows anyone to "poison the well", by introducing a large number of contracts into the blockchain specifically designed to stymie certain ASICs. The economic incentives exist for ASIC manufacturers to use such a trick to attack each other. Thus, the solution that we are developing is ultimately an adaptive economic human solution rather than purely a technical one.
So with the Ethereum team providing only an economic reason to not develop an ASIC since the beginning, there has been no lie.
Second batch of E3s will not be profitable with Ethereum
As a response to the developers announcing that they are not initiating a hard fork, Bitmain raised the price of the second batch of E3s to $1800. With a PSU ($105) and shipping costs ($225), plus duty fees ($25). That brings each E3 up to $2,155, or $11.97 per MH. Comparatively, this is like paying $300 per GPU ($1800) plus Mobo/PSU/risers ($355). I have built rigs with similar hashrates for under $1,900 ($10.50 per MH). If we speculate that Casper is as close as we think (see below), coupled with the rising difficulty, the second batch of E3s are not likely to break-even with Ethereum as a whole. If ETH rises to its ATH, the second batch units may be profitable. Tis the risk of mining.
ASICs are bad!
In the Ethereum mining community, ASICs to be viewed as a formidable commodity, when they should rather be viewed as a tool. Tools are never inherently good or bad, but how they are used can be, and some developers intend for the coin to eventually be used with an ASIC. Some coins, such as Sia, were designed to specifically work with an ASIC. > 51% centralization is bad.
Bitmain has a better ASIC.
Probably. But this is an unknown. Speculation of an ASIC is not a reason to fork the second largest cryptocurrency.
Bitmain will be a cause for centralization
Everything should be a concern for centralization. Hell, early miners can be a bigger concern. The principals of economies of scale still apply to mining; so those who started out with a lot of GPUs are heavily mining. I've set up warehouses full of GPUs for clients, so if you think some of the guys here are big shots, I promise you there are larger concerns for the current state of centralization.
I will also note that yes, we will need to worry about a mass-manufacturer of just ASICs, especially if they are pumping out > 30,000 units per month at the current rate. But the firm that uncovered Bitmain's ASIC, Susquehannah, claims that there are at least three other ASIC manufacturers out there. This puts some silent competition on Bitmain.
Ethereum is not as centralized as Bitcoin
You'd think that, and the goal of the whitepaper was for Ethereum to be less centralized as bitcoin. It even mentions that "three mining pools indirectly control roughly 50% of processing power in the Bitcoin network." Ethereum is in this state already. Ethermine controls ~28% of the network hashrate, F2pool has ~17%, and SparkPool has ~15%. Arguably, the Ethereum network is in a more sensitive state.
Casper is right around the corner.
This has been speculation for some time now. Developers confirmed that testnet should be fully operational by August, meaning that we may be able to expect PoS hybrid by DecembeJanuary assuming everything goes as planned.
Dev team does not care about miners
In the project's current state, miners are a necessity. Remember that seigniorage must be sinigicant enough for miners to continue mining, otherwise, the network would slow and we'd have another Crypto Kitties incident on our hands. Until Ethereum is PoS, you are valid.
Dev team wants to get rid of miners
Well, yeah. That's what PoS is about. Ethereum will not be Proof of Work forever and that needs to be appreciated.
We should fork ourselves into an ASIC-proof currency
Do it! Take some initiative and work up a team, I'll be happy to help and support in any way that I can, including pointing my hashing power your way.
Ethereum decision governance
Right now, large decisions are made by the Ethereum core developers. This last decision to not hard-fork was not well received by the community. It feels to be almost an "electoral college" kind of deal, and that's something that has upset a lot of people. Is this the topic that we need to discuss in more detail?
So what is this thread?
For now, this is going to replace our weekly discussion for a few weeks until everything calms down. The sub is in a volatile state and everyone is slinging FUD at everyone else. We need to clean up and calmly discuss our position on the matter at hand. This means:
No more fighting about the ASIC in the comments
OUTSIDE OF THIS THREAD, please do not shitpost. Meaning, no more strongly worded threads about how you're out of mining completely because of the ASIC, or how the developers screwed you over because ETH was supposed to be ASIC proof, or how people are whining. I'm deleting threads left and right for people who are just using the sub as an outlet to name call on both sides.
As always, constructive threads are welcome, but shitposts are to be confined to this thread, please.
We all have different opinions
I am going to remain neutral on this topic. I mine with both GPUs and ASICs, and I've worked with countless numbers of people who do as well. We need to cooperate as a community instead of tearing each other apart over the issue. Let's think before we post and keep comments constructive. Happy mining!
Bitmain is a technology company specializing in high-speed, low-power custom chip design and development, successfully designed and produced a variety of ASIC custom chips and integrated systems. Bitmain was founded in 2013. In the same year, it launched the first generation bitcoin mining machine of the ant mining machine series - Antminer S1. After more than five years of development, the antminer series bitcoin mining machine passed S1, S2, S3, S4 Iterations of multiple models of S5, S7 and S9, the latest bitcoin mining models are S15 and T15, which will be sold on November 8, 2018. The Antminer S15 adopts a new 7nm chip process. The official evaluation of the S15 is durable, energy saving. Emphasizing the characteristics of "high performance, more durable, and more power saving". From the officially announced parameters, the Antminer S15 is built in. Standard and low-power mining modes. The officially announced parameters have a unit-to-power ratio of 57J/T in standard mode, and the unit-to-power ratio of low-power mode has reached 50J/T. Compared to the products in the current market, in terms of Bitcoin miners, this unit power consumption ratio has set a new record. Antminer S15 official parameters, https://preview.redd.it/9fgwfaqp6bd21.jpg?width=1015&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8239da7bcece1abb80f1fb56708e02fa111a150b Recently, the Antminer S15 has sent to Cybtc for testing. Please see the third-party independent review by us. I. Unpacking: Because the Antminer S15 adopts a new all-in-one and parallel fan design, the packaging box has changed from the previous generations. The previous cuboid has changed into a square-like style. The packaging material is still packaged in an industrial carton, and the box is marked manufacturer information, logistics warehousing logo, mining machine specification model and strip identification code, outer box size: 486*388*265, weight about 8.7kg. The interior of the two pieces of styrofoam is firmly packed in the box from the upper and lower sides to ensure the safety of the mining machine during transportation. There is also a gap around the pearl foam for easy access. Take out the styrofoam on one side to see the main body of the mining machine. The mining machine is wrapped by an anti-electrostatic bag. Compared with the box, the mining machine looks very small and only takes up about half of the box space. The Antminer S15 changed the style of single-tube with double cooling fans as S1-S9 models, and became a dual-fan parallel single-side air intake and adopted the integrated machine design of the mining machine + power supply. The whole machine size is 279*175*221mm, weight 7.13 kg. https://preview.redd.it/k0xp89yy6bd21.jpg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5504d958a4cc6fdb1c01783b777e60483ea7ef9a The Antminer S15 is small and neat, the air inlet side and the mining machine interface side are on the same side, the fan is removed from the air outlet side, and a honeycomb-shaped baffle is used. https://preview.redd.it/ex187jf27bd21.jpg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8210c514e186dae075d9b986f7682a49141aa6a The advantage of the all-in-one design is that the wire connection is reduced. The appearance of the mining machine is more compact, and the use and operation and maintenance are more convenient. The connection between the Antminer S15 mining machine and the power supply uses a clip-connected design, and the controller and the power board are still connected by flat signal cable. https://preview.redd.it/85cz4u4c7bd21.jpg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab87c2f4c2943f0e9eb3dbbe2576f9d043add399 The nameplate of the mining machine body is marked with the model number, hash rate, and identification bar code. If the bottom part can increase the anti-slip mat, it is better to strengthen the stability of the mining machine when it is placed horizontally. The mining machine supports the erect and horizontal two ways. On the rack, the miner can choose the placement method according to the size of the mine rack. https://preview.redd.it/wxavyize7bd21.jpg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ab2335eabb3b13731284f89805abcb131bfbda4 II. Antminer S15 installation: The design of the Antminer S15 all-in-one machine reduces the link of the power line of the plugging and unloading machine. As long as it is placed in the rack, plug in the power cable and the network cable to complete the hardware installation. Find the mine IP address. Antminer S15 mining machine is automatically assigned IP mode, you can enter the local router to view the IP address named "antMiner". Or use the ant official mining machine management software BitmainMinerTool to scan the IP address of the current mining machine. You can also use the management software to set the mining pool address and worker name, update the firmware, etc. When the number of mining machines is large, you can also use the mining machine. IP report button to find the IP address of the mining machine. To view the real-time status of a single mining machine, you need to enter the mining machine control page. First, enter the mining machine IP into the control page home page, and then enter the default user name and password (the default is root) to enter the mining machine control page. The new mining machine needs to modify the name of the mining pool and miners, click on the “Miner Configuration” page to modify the main mining pool address and worker name, and modify the two alternate mining pool addresses and miners' names as needed. Antminer S15 has built-in standard and low-power mining modes, so you can easily select any mode mining on this page according to your needs. After each setting is completed, click “Save&Apply” to save the settings and apply. After saving, the miner will restart the mining procedure. After about a few minutes of normal operation of the mining machine, you can enter the mining operation interface “Miner Status” to check the operation of the mining machine, including running time, hash rate, Chip status, operating frequency, PCB board and chip temperature, fan speed and other parameters information. III. Review: The Antminer S15 has standard mining mode and low power consumption mode. Therefore, we tested the two modes for 24 hours respectively. The test environment temperature is about 17 degrees, and the noise value is around 36 decibels. https://preview.redd.it/2wzornwmabd21.jpg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62e6e57755d70d526eeda4066a31b042473871a8 After the mining machine is turned on, the fan runs at full speed, the power consumption of the boot is about 25W and further increases slowly, and the noise level is up to 81.2 dB. Standard mode test Power consumption: The miner's chip is fully operational, and the control page power is 28T. The measured power consumption of the miner is 1610-1620W, which is in line with the officially announced 1596W ±7% level. Noise: Due to the low ambient temperature, the number of fan rotations is basically stable at around 3120 rpm. The noise value of the operating environment is measured to be 76.5 decibels. The distance of the mine is 27.7 meters, and the noise level is properly controlled. Temperature: Antminer S15 has a total of four mining boards. There are four temperature-sensing modules distributed on each calculation board. The chip temperature is at least 44 degrees and the highest is 78 degrees. Thanks to the Exposed Die package, the outlet temperature is about 42 degrees. The power outlet temperature is about 28 degrees. https://preview.redd.it/h71plzf0bbd21.jpg?width=641&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=588728e6a87b510d5cc65eb41a1ffe80d6435f17 Because the Antminer S15 adopts the one-piece design, We also test the contact temperature of the power supply and the mining machine's power board. It can be clearly seen that the temperature values of each point are different. https://preview.redd.it/4ghcl4i3bbd21.jpg?width=990&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a344917e4a3b529aef58127f5e5c8fdaa61c62fa Hash rate: After 24 hours test in the btc.com mining pool, the average hash rate of the Antminer S15 in 24 hours was 28.56 TH/s. Thus calculate the unit energy efficiency ratio = 1620W / 28.56 ≈ 56.72W / T, and the official published data 57 J / T consistent. Low power mode test Power consumption: After checking the option behind “Low Power Mode” on the Antminer S15 Pool Settings page and saving the application, the miner can run in low power mode. After the power of the mining machine control page reaches 17T, the measured power consumption is up to 836.6W, and the running data meets the official data of 775W ±7% - 900W ±7%. Noise: As the power and power consumption are reduced, the fan speed is basically stable at around 2400 rpm, the measured operating environment noise value is 77 decibels, and the distance measured by the mining machine is about 66 decibels at a distance of 2 meters. The noise level and the standard mode. At the same level. Temperature: The four mining board chips have a minimum temperature of 25 degrees and a maximum of 62 degrees. The outlet temperature is about 30 degrees, which is slightly lower than the standard mode. The temperature of the power outlet is about 20 degrees. https://preview.redd.it/r4f2ww96cbd21.jpg?width=641&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae3051c74634ac9d98373d71e8fee3f542d455c5 Contact point temperature value between the power supply and mining machine mining board. https://preview.redd.it/fskmubi8cbd21.jpg?width=990&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a1616d21af2b87bc0996f1ce388b3ab9983d33dd Hash rate: After 24 hours of testing in the btc.com mine, the average 24-hour power was measured at 17.5TH/S. Thus calculate the unit energy efficiency ratio = 836.6W / 17.5 ≈ 47.8W / T, lower than the official published data 50 J / T. IV. Summary: Two built-in mining modes. The power consumption per unit of power in low-power mode is lower than 50W/T, which is better. The lower the power consumption ratio, the lower the price of the shutdown. One machine design reduces the wire, beautiful and convenient. Exposed Die package improves heat dissipation, increasing the number of chips per unit volume and reducing heat sinks, reducing overall weight. The new AWP8 power supply is used, easy to assemble and disassemble. The machine noise is lower and the temperature is lower than other mining machines. The calculation power of the whole machine is stable and fluctuating. Finally, exposed power connectors may cause problems if touch the iron on the shelf. Maybe it can have improvement. The Antminer series mining machine has evolved from S1 to S15, and the computing power has evolved from S180's 180G/360W to S15's 28000G/1600W. This is not just a digital evolution, but also the ups and downs of the Bitcoin industry. The mining machine is upgrading. Bitcoin is advancing, leaving many stories in the chain, the currency circle and the mining ring than the ten-year journey of holding the currency. In the two-year life cycle of S9, S9's bitcoin mining machine market share is far ahead, and currently in the market background of the rising bitcoin computing power, the depressed bear market and more new mining machines, Whether the ant S15 can create a new benchmark for the bitcoin mining machine, time will give us the answer. More miner and crypto reviews on: cybtc.org Telegram：https://t.me/joinchat/LgPYnE1vPpXqYDVpPaQyxw Discord：https://discord.gg/RfCZMNY
I am thinking of using a bitcoin miner to heat my house this winter, thoughts?
My calculations that a simple Antminer S5 (1100GH) will replace my gas furnace heat output at roughly a 1:1 price equation of electricity use = gas savings. It basically means free electricity for my miner making ROI significantly easier. Thoughts on this? Has anyone done it? I have never entered the mining space before and I am looking for a small entry unit similar to the S5 probably sometime late this summer, if anyone has any experience that would be great to know. My plan is to put a air filter on the front of it, and hook up the exhaust through some tubing to my central air system and have it constantly pumping it's exhaust heat through my house. I expect a single S5 to reduce the heat required by about 20%. I can envision a product where Bitcoin hot water heaters or bitcoin central heating in cold climates significantly reduce the impact of the marginal cost of maintaining these systems by reducing the real costs of electricity to a point where industrial farms can't compete because you are replacing an actual NEED. Thanks
IBM 2880W PSU/Breakout Boards - *NEW* Package deals for T9/S9 & A7
Please see here for IBM 4K PSU packages: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1308296 Please see here for GPU rig powering packages with all adapters necessary to run rigs off these PSU's! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1864539 NEW - PACKAGE DEALS The "Get Me Going" Package (Tell the wife her dryer now runs on 12V and has blinking lights and loud fans) Simply add a C19 cable. - 1x 2880W PSU - 1x Breakout board - 10x 24" PCIe cables The "Double A (AntmineAvalon)" Package Enough to power 2x Antminer S9's for as cheap as possible - 1x 2880W PSU - 1x Breakout board - 20x 24" PCIe cables - 1x C19 power cable of choice (see below for stock) The "Royale With Cheese" Package (Perfect to run 2x Antminer S9's, mixing and matching lengths for flexibility and value.) - 1x 2880W PSU - 1x Breakout board - 11x 24" PCIe cables - 11x 36" Deluxe PCIe cables - 1x C19 power cable of choice (see below for stock) The "Pimp Daddy" Package (Add a 50A circuit and go big, with PDU included for clean, simple & safe install) - 3x 2880W PSU - 3x Breakout boards - 1x 40A 4-port PDU with breakers for each circuit - 30x 24" PCIe cables - 30x 36" Deluxe PCIe cables - 3x C19 power cables of choice (see below for stock) Boards and cables ship from Canada, PSU's ship domestically in the US to save on shipping and any potential duty/taxes at the border. Individual pricing Note: Bulk pricing is available, please contact me. Board price - $65 each. PSU (Refurbished) - IN STOCK. Includes ground shipping within the US. I can supply PCI cables in two different configurations: -36" Deluxe, high quality 16awg made in USA- $4.50 each (IN STOCK) -24" standard 16 AWG cables - $2.50 each (IN STOCK) C19 to C20 cable (14awg, 1.6M) - $12 each C19 to NEMA 5-15P cable (14awg, 1.6M) - $12 each C19 to NEMA 6-20P (12awg, 1.6M) - $12 each 40A continuous-rated PDU (requires 50A circuit): $120 24A continuous-rated PDU (requires 30A circuit): $60 60A 3-Phase Delta current-monitored PDU with remote access: $350 LEASING CONTRACTS I have started to offer leasing packages for use in approved Data Centre/Co-locations. This can be beneficial for many reasons: -Less upfront capital required, allowing more to be spent on additional mining hardware which can offset much or all of the cost of the lease -Limits risk and cost of equipment failure, and associated down time due to failures -Saves shipping costs for heavy PSU's to and from hosting location for duration of your contract -No equipment depreciation -Helps eliminate ownership problems associated with Group Buys, when more than 1 member shares purchase price of PSU to host together -All maintenance, replacement, shipping, setup, and lost revenue from down-time due to PSU failure is my responsibility Please contact me for details. Shipping Shipping will be calculated individually, to make sure you are getting the best rate. All prices are in USD. I am willing to accept escrow through OGNasty, and can also do Paypal but buyer will be responsible for covering costs of either services (4% added to paypal, OG charges 1% for escrow). Each package of PSU, breakout board & 10x PCI cables is approximately 16 lbs. The BTC address for all non-escrow breakout board orders is here: 1GWQYCv22cAikgTgT1zFuAmsJ9fFqq9TXf I will not PM you asking for payments to any other address, so beware of F1nksy, Fink5y, or whatever scammy names might pop up. Original Post: Hi everyone, I am the official North American distributor of Break-out boards for the IBM 2880W Bladecenter H PSU's, which are 80+ platinum rated (94%+ efficient) Edit: UN-VERIFIED AT THIS POINT and have provision for 22x PCI-E cables. Unlike other server boards, these don't rely on screw-down terminals and bare wires which can get loose and spark causing fire hazards, and limit the exposure of live contacts to surfaces above and below the PSU. Instead these use a double-sided PCI 6 pin cable, which only cost about $0.10 more than the standard PCI-6 to bare wire versions. Also, unlike the DPS-2000BB -which is the next largest server PSU available for miners- these have fans already built-in, so don't need extra work to set up up and deploy. The PSU's themselves are available on e-bay and elsewhere (I sell them as well), and the boards will be priced at US $70 $65 each (better pricing for bulk purchase, volume structure will be the same as J4bberwock's). Each PSU can handle 2x Antminer S7's, 3x SP20's, 5 Antminer S5's, or 8 Antminer S3's. You won't find better value for power, and there are very few ATX-based PSU's that provide 80+ platinum efficiency (and none for under $200 for even 700-800 watts). Edit: UN-VERIFIED AT THIS POINT Lastly, unlike ATX-based PSU's, these can be run at (and I have found even over) their rated power, as they were designed that way for server use. They do, however, require 240V input. Also, running these over at over 90% load will give you slightly decreased efficiency, and could affect their reliability. I have personally taken 3x SP20's to settings around 960 watts (at ports, not at wall) each for approximately 2 weeks, and the PSU drew 13.41 amps (@ 235 volts - 3150 watts @ wall). So at absolute full load (or possibly over), these will still hold over 90% efficiency. Very impressive, and I will be testing different fans to reduce sound for home mining (fans on these PSU's are slightly louder & higher pitched than SP20 fans). Sloopy informed me that he ran 11x Antminer S3's on a PSU for a while (over 3,300W DC!), but that is certainly not recommended, and will eventually cause the PSU to fail. It is simply a testament to how tough these PSU's truly are, and that spikes over their rated output shouldn't affect performance. Here are some pictures: Feel free to contact the developer of these boards if you have any concerns, he will verify that I am authorized to sell these. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=206446 Here is the spec sheet with efficiency rating: http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/bladecentehardware/chassis/bladeh/ Thank you for your time, Finksy J'observe qu'il y a plusieurs Québécois sur se forum. Mon Francais est au niveau primaire mais je peux communiquer sans probleme. Me gusta mucho aprender español, y tengo un conocimiento muy básico (con traductores). Pruebame, si eres paciente Here is my PGP key for anyone wishing to send their personal information encrypted: Code:-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: GnuPG v2 mQENBFTl/j4BCADw0a0fUisOWh16Yl1/SC8p2vcGoGgV4MwxeaLSoLRdT2437E51 kd5giYj6Ki8ByNTunXBRr01yXplxL1Pp3yTo/GFmNqEm3XwIaq+rRRP6EIKb3U6Y SWSXfeck8J3+HJXrcCEdBA+Hp+ey8Mjg3/eb1ILMld+WKJPPDCQNKK3GJEp7DLtH Rtybq0BCsXou90KxHr37k0MQJY6u6zsM5yl0gpK5dVqZvIOfX+5MGb2hsfilU2cF 9ZJQt72LCwkdcxgRxBGYT6qVZtOoFe5RwI9nxGGRrlsCxG9vAf9sVUxSiY03najM r7qM8hQPGMtn79SLnkkQM4gt7suy3w1SJm6BABEBAAG0G0ZpbmtzeSA8cmZpbmtz NjlAZ21haWwuY29tPokBOQQTAQIAIwUCVOX+PgIbAwcLCQgHAwIBBhUIAgkKCwQW AgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEGhX1pvgBfqVKDEIAJA7ashSYaVUS/HUKB1F2nYEYtf2PlHn EvluHzsrND0XdMkKEI/vavZ4UHfAdFISmFhickLeLwvSI3TotVDtYd7dDkwT3rIs +QJCXMIRDFnyCge7o9DH4HwSWq8tQ+6xsPXBdJANR9kG+RtipatqJv3Yt8wEzYwu ECnkBnpu1rxhMgYGJhgaVNyhAEPKVUPfsFBTEpkQ9YppPFZp99Ahdk8pQoAUBKzQ +++oW7ju3OWBpRluPIWYvYvdfG+d29dAq5iQJBIdm/RCDxw0hidMeOxOqTpi0g55 W+XY5+DrKSnOpHy+LvC0Uss0xGZ0f/pmEDiNuZbJ96ZEL1rYefgfDKO5AQ0EVOX+ PgEIALZgnlkXFcm0jnEY33LWBDkpIihbMM8XAauwi3gS9G/GzqBG+ETq14g2AyW9 6O1TrVFm2Ue/KiT+sl4iekkcRCbjYgkr9eG82l56YazbSRoH84aX3KBx95BMAY96 O2IE52fySYaqj1SBRSgVJSCh1A6Wami/zQhqdND6tk92af4VmSKyR1yWOKqbE/v9 0uPJ+VWA/0CipSUVJS6GZmSfPCeHVTg3YGR2dzRploXl4qrB5leHvOmj2VwW2bzF 6YZKut5uqREJ2euchpyPMg8EMC9QOXPAZxDQMUJAIxTQviShsakGbFd2SrUaKPz/ Sk3Qj1S6ZE9ZgbxMyB9bGMWMa68AEQEAAYkBHwQYAQIACQUCVOX+PgIbDAAKCRBo V9ab4AX6lYqnCACPHiLN8OEyD320N107l2dywIopCBa7ZfTBXPJ5syRuMcyBOXXT 2hZy7YpWr6IrV3foOUNF3rD1ECerj7oYhx7hgkTJe7rM3+mhONZM6beXzgFG+HO3 FCiUz/thif0zkJTAjygmAB1KHNH+0AIcdRsD46N1MsPp5YeN0geF1LE50+4gvtwf W412vGqA5bYwJ8a71Gp8SAR4YWuXKt0FKSp7iCF91pSunbY7VbaqxR0H7LkaKRVZ 9m30OK7Osu396FwYxBIX1UDLMjgfMATYvkzXYvRpPAnStJGmVB/YvcX+9sQeRQE1 BKAtkyAGpzKQZ0TFd94jgevGONQ336QqHF =mRrl -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- I will honour a 10-day return/exchange for PSU's or Boards that are DOA. However, these PSU's are used and although I try to briefly load test them all before sending them out, it is impossible to predict failures. As such, no warranty will be offered beyond what was previously mentioned. If you are looking for more peace of mind, please feel free to source PSU's yourself either new or used. BitcoinTalk Link to Contact
We all know, or at least we SHOULD know, that cryptocurrencies are not an investment. Right? The trouble is, ever since that famous $7 million bitcoin pizza, the crypto world seems to be divided between the early arrival millionaires, the wannabes, and the predators out to scam them. And there has been a very, very long list of scammers, hasn't there? Many of the names are well known, especially the ones in jail, or heading there. Trouble is, like a shark in a shoal of fish, they scared many away, especially the get-rich-quick crowd. Its not easy to watch your money evaporate, and the effect on the community as a whole is crippling, as the departing hordes do more damage to the cryptoconomy than the predators ever did. Over on /asicgroupbuy, we've had our share of disasters. We had one of our own lose over $7k of our money, and then disappear, in shame or guilt. It doesn't really matter which. We were into GAW's scam, though we got out with a profit. We were gobbled up by Moolah, and most recently by Chris's LTCgear scam. We've reached a point where people are saying there's nothing left to invest in. While cryptos aren't an investment, there are investments in the cryptosphere. Mining being an obvious one... but as we all know, the days of the small miner are well and truly over. The rewards are simply not enough to cover capital and operating costs. Don't believe me? Try it yourself, but be prepared to lose most or all of what you put in. And of course so-called 'cloud' mining is for the most part a massive con. Sure, they may pay out short term... After all, I paid for my ex-GAW Gridseeds thanks to profits from the Cointellect scam before they soured. But the numbers just don't stack up when you look hard. And yet, we all know there IS money being made in mining. Mostly by those huge, anonymous chinese mines we've all seen pictures and videos of. Noisy, hot, dank hellholes hidden in the jungle with thousands of screaming ASICs and a couple of guys running around 24/7 keeping them going and sleeping on the floor. But this kind of thing costs millions, and is way out of our league.
Or is it?
Yesterday, I was in town, picking up a batch of (physical, non-crypto) coins someone brought back from Sydney for me. And it was a glorious day, perfect for a leisurely stroll. I had been looking at the Bitcoin Group's IPO, after seeing that our new Prime Minister has kicked it off with an OnMarket Bookbuilds launch. I even linked the referral on my Facebook page, not that I expect anyone to ever use it. I read the Prospectus(Note: Specifically NOT available to US citizens) and was thinking of investing. So I thought "Why not drop by their office and pick up a paper copy? Makes the form easier to fill out if I decide to buy shares." Well, I gotta say I was impressed. I met much of the team, had a long chat with Sam, their CEO, and had all my hard questions answered. Ended up borrowing their WiFi to transfer a couple grand over for a small stake, and will likely increase it before the offer closes. In a nutshell, they're going to ramp up their existing mines in China and Iceland to around 13% of the total BTC hashrate. The Chinese mines are located in remote areas, adjacent to hydro power stations... apparently these stations can't sell their electricity onto the grid, so they've done really good deals to supply cheap power. Current ASICs are Antminer S5's, with a mix of S5's and the coming S7's making up the 50,000+ miners to be installed. They should be generating around $35 million a year, and although they won't be paying dividends, by reinvesting profits their market cap should increase nicely. At least that's the plan. This is a real company, very open and inviting. They even host the Melbourne Bitcoin Meetups and have a museum and facilities for public use. Here's a pic of Martin in the museum room which has examples of every miner ever built... an impressive collection of mostly black boxes. ;) http://i.imgur.com/YHWZKID.jpg
Note that this is not an invitation to invest in this particular company!
Apart from the fact that that would be illegal in the US (although there ARE ways for americans to buy in via proxies), this post is not about one company. Rather it is about the fact that real-world opportunities DO exist, and we shouldn't let the 'Wolves and Weasels'(to borrow GoodShibe's description of them) destroy our faith in the crypto world.
Nor is this about BTC.
While Bitcoin Mining is the current most profitable way to mine, that won't necessarily hold true indefinitely. We spoke at length about next year's halving, and although our opinion on the likely outcome differed, they do have plans in place either way. Sam told me he holds significant amounts of altcoins, including Doge, and is not averse to them. While the focus is now purely on BTC, that isn't necessarily graven in stone.
Stay Active, and Keep Your Eye On The Ball!
There are most definitely legitimate opportunities in the cryptosphere. Whether its Dogecoin or Bitcoin or something else. Whether its a public float of a mining company, a new exchange, or some other business, some very smart people are doing a lot of hard work creating value out there. But you'll never hear about it if you don't listen. Just like we all found out about that pizza long after it was too late to get aboard, if you don't pay attention, you will be sitting on the sidelines wishing you had known about the next big thing. Sure, /dogecoin isn't what it used to be. Neither are any of the other crypto subs. So what? That just makes them easier to keep an eye on, doesn't it? Stay subscribed. Look in regularly. And read (and maybe even upvote and comment in occasionally) all those posts that aren't about the good old days, or silly dog/pinapple pics. Maybe that way, THESE will become 'the good old days'. Think about that. :)
I'm wanting to get into bitcoin, especially mining. I was looking at the AntMiner S5. I was wanting to know, is it really worth it? Can I really make a few hundred per year just by buying this box and plugging it in? Also, I know I can (somehow) spend the bitcoin, but how could I also convert some to USD to spend either as paypal or cash? Thanks and sorry if it doesn't make much sense, I'm really new to bitcoin but I want to try getting into it.
I have been missing the old mining days lately. Everyone, including myself, has moved away from doge mining directly due to unprofitability after AuxPow. What if we had a multipool Doge site that paid out in doge. I know this has been attempted before but I would love to connect my miners to something that auto traded for doge and delivered them to my wallet. Could this bring some Wow back? Current daily payouts: Antminer S3 : .0053 bitcoin or 8,153 doge gridseed blade: .1234 litecoin or 1,542 doge Antminer S5: .014 bitcoin or 21,538 doge NOte: I know Pandapool has some functionality but I have had issue connecting, it is limited to scrypt and not a Shibe oriented site.
Overview - Table of Contents Introduction to Earning in Bitcoin Work for Bitcoin Sell for Bitcoin Affiliate Programs Gambling Bitcoin Mining Hardware Mining Cloud Mining Introduction to Earning in Bitcoin Bitcoin is the most popular digital currency in the world today. Bitcoin cloud mining is the fastest way to immediately begin earning bitcoins. Bitcoin is built using very complicated cryptographic principles, and supported by countless individuals and companies from all around the world. By early 2016, total Bitcoin market capitalization had crossed USD 7 Billion, making it almost as valuable as the GDP of a small country like Bahamas. All the other digital currencies together do not constitute even 20% of Bitcoin’s market capitalization, underlining the its dominance and importance in the world of digital currencies. With such a huge amount of world’s capital available in the form of Bitcoins, the number and types of opportunities to earn in bitcoins are increasing by the day. In this article we will discuss such opportunities that help us earn bitcoins. We will start with the easiest, or the one that is applicable for the maximum number of people, and then move to the tougher ones. In the end we will cover earning bitcoins by mining. Bitcoin mining is not an easy way to earn bitcoins, but we do have a number of easier ones we will discuss first. So lets start with ‘earning bitcoins by offering your services’ Work for Bitcoin Perhaps the easiest way to earn bitcoins is to work online or in real life for bitcoins. Because of the huge size of the bitcoin eco-system, a number of such opportunities and jobs are available. With Billions of dollars invested in Bitcoin by tens of thousands of people, there is a real market in Bitcoin, where you can find jobs for freelancers, software developers, writers, and others who get paid in bitcoins for their services. Software development, writing, design, making websites or apps, audio transcription, are some of the most active types of jobs. You can easily discover the types of jobs by going over the more popular job boards for bitcoin related work. The following job boards or forums are some of the best places to look for such jobs or gigs. Freelancing XBTfreelancer Cryptogrind Bitlancerr Coinality Bitgigs Jobs4Bitcoins Rein Project Crypto Jobs List Market Places OpenBazaar Purse.io Bitify /bitmarket 21 Market Video Streaming Watchmybit Streamium.io Tasks Bitasker BitforTip WillPayCoin File/Image Sharing Supload.com SatoshiBox JoyStream Advertising CoinAd A-ads Coinzilla.io Also, check BitcoinGames for ideas on earning bitcoin and blockchain game assets. Sell for bitcoin You can also get Bitcoin by selling your old laptops, phones or other items for Bitcoins. Such types of transactions are happening more and more, and a lot of buyers are already buying anything from iPhones to even cars by paying with Bitcoins. For Americans, Craigslist.com is your best bet when you want to find such buyers. You can mention in your ad that you are willing to take payment in Bitcoin. This way if anyone wants to buy the item for you for Bitcoin, they can contact you and make an offer. The same principle applies to other online marketplaces such as gumtree for UK, kijiji for canda etc. Affiliate Programs Affiliate programs allow a promoter of a business or product to earn money or bitcoins by refering new clients to such businesses or products. For example, amazon.com has a popular affiliate program, where you can earn commission ranging from 2% to 20% for refering clients to products listed on amazon.com. Amazon normally pays in dollars, but there are a number of other sites and businesses which pay you in bitcoin for acting as their affiliate. Some of the more popular affiliate programs that pay out in Bitcoin are by the sites: cex.io, coinbase.com, okcoin.com and namecheap.com, among others. You can find a larger list of such affiliate programs on the bitcoin wiki page for Affiliates. Gambling We do not recommend gambling for every player or every user; we find that gambling is only suitable for people who know how to win at it. However, if you are one of such lucky users who have some tricks up their sleeves, and can manage to win at games such as poker, then you will find that earning bitcoins is not that hard. One of the many applications of bitcoin since the very beginning have been in betting games or gambling. Because of the relative anonymity of bitcoin, and the lower fees, it is very suitable for gambling related applications. Indeed, one such game, satoshiDICE, has been running since 2012, and has paid out a huge number of bitcoins in innumerable transactions to its winners. There are many such games, which you can find be googling. If you want to gamble totally anonymously, you can play gambling or betting games that are available only on darknet or .onion sites. Such sites allow you to browse them anonymous by operating on the tor network, which is a secure network that allows users to browse .onion websites without exposing their own IP address. Bitcoin Mining For each block that is added to the Bitcoin Blockchain, a number of bitcoins are rewarded to the creater of that block. This reward is currently, as of June 2016, 25 bitcoins per block, and it halves every four years. The next halving will be in July 2016. Creating or finding the new blocks, and therefore winning the reward of 25 bitcoins for each block you create, is called bitcoin mining. To do bitcoin mining successfully, you need very powerful computers, which compete with other computers to find the next block. The speed or power of computer that do bitcoin mining is calculated in hashes calculated per second. There are two ways to do bitcoin mining: one is to own hardware or computers that do the mining, and second is to hire the hardware from a third party, usually online, and do the mining on the cloud. Let us discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both in next two sections. Hardware Mining When you own the hardware that does the calculations and mining of bitcoins, its called hardware mining. Hardware mining is the more popular or prevalent of the two types of mining we mentioned. One of the biggest factors which comes into play when doing bitcoin mining using your own hardware is the price of electricity. If you pay top price for electricity, then bitcoin mining may not be your cup of tea. Another related factor is infrastructure needed to cool the hardware; since every cpu generates some amount of heat, you may need to cool the hardware in case they become too heated. No wonder that some of the most successful miners work from China, specially Tibet, where they can get cheap electricity, and their cooling costs are low due to high altitude which reduces the ambient temperature for them. For a more in-depth information on how to setup your hardware mining equipment, have a look at the Antminer setup page. Currently, based on (1) price per hash and (2) electrical efficiency the best Bitcoin miner options are: AntMiner S7 AntMiner S7 Bitcoin Miner 4.73 Th/s 0.25 W/Gh 8.8 pounds Yes $479.95 AntMiner S7 Bitcoin Miner 0.1645 AntMiner S9 AntMiner S9 Bitcoin Miner 13.5 Th/s 0.098 W/Gh 8.1 pounds Yes $1,987.95 AntMiner S9 Bitcoin Miner 0.3603 Avalon6 Avalon6 Bitcoin Miner 3.5 Th/s 0.29 W/Gh 9.5 pounds No $499.95 Avalon6 Bitcoin Miner 0.1232 Cloud Mining There are a number of service providers that allow you to rent computational hardware from them, which can then be used to do bitcon mining. Some of these services are designed with bitcoin mining in mind, whereas others such as Amazon AWS are general purpose services that can also be used to do bitcoin mining. Some of the cloud mining services which can be used to do bitcoin mining on the cloud are: Hashflare Review: Hashflare offers SHA-256 mining contracts and more profitable SHA-256 coins can be mined while automatic payouts are still in BTC. Customers must purchase at least 10 GH/s. Genesis Mining Review: Genesis Mining is the largest Bitcoin and scrypt cloud mining provider. Genesis Mining offers three Bitcoin cloud mining plans that are reasonably priced. Zcash mining contracts are also available. Hashing 24 Review: Hashing24 has been involved with Bitcoin mining since 2012. They have facilities in Iceland and Georgia. They use modern ASIC chips from BitFury deliver the maximum performance and efficiency possible. Minex Review: Minex is an innovative aggregator of blockchain projects presented in an economic simulation game format. Users purchase Cloudpacks which can then be used to build an index from pre-picked sets of cloud mining farms, lotteries, casinos, real-world markets and much more. Minergate Review: Offers both pool and merged mining and cloud mining services for Bitcoin. Hashnest Review: Hashnest is operated by Bitmain, the producer of the Antminer line of Bitcoin miners. HashNest currently has over 600 Antminer S7s for rent. You can view the most up-to-date pricing and availability on Hashnest's website. At the time of writing one Antminer S7's hash rate can be rented for $1,200. Bitcoin Cloud Mining Review: Currently all Bitcoin Cloud Mining contracts are sold out. NiceHash Review: NiceHash is unique in that it uses an orderbook to match mining contract buyers and sellers. Check its website for up-to-date prices. Eobot Review: Start cloud mining Bitcoin with as little as $10. Eobot claims customers can break even in 14 months. MineOnCloud Review: MineOnCloud currently has about 35 TH/s of mining equipment for rent in the cloud. Some miners available for rent include AntMiner S4s and S5s. Written by Bitcoin Mining on May 4, 2016.
So I've been doing research on bitcoin mining and it intrigues me. I live in an apartment complex that includes electricity. I have everything plugged in that I can imagine (including a PowerMac with 1kw psu, wine fridge, large fridge, iMac, tv, NAS, etc.) with nothing said, so power is a non-issue, fortunately. I also help with running a network rack that I can collocate equipment in a data center, however that, I do need to worry about power. I'm wondering if I pick up an AntMiner S5 (or potentially two), am I wasting my money? Also, I see some people that have a few AntMiners and other people that have many more USB ASIC's. Is there any benefit to one over the other?
I'd like to buy two Antminer s5's and run those at my current electricity rate of .02/kWh (special residential rate). I am not trying to get rich but assuming we stay above 200 for bitcoin, will this be profitable after buying miners and power supply? I want to cut these machines on and be apart of the movement. I am ok with losing 100% of investment.
EDIT It seems my power cost estimates are way too high, I hadnt realised just how cheaply some of you guys get your power. So consider calculations below vastly flawed, but the main point remains, it would be best to express the cost per block in BTC if at all possible. Im a huge bitcoin fan, more of the technology than the currency; but I have a question about the cost per Block: We all know about the Block Reward; I believe it is currently 25 btc, projected to halve mid 2016. Plus there are the miners fees. However I rarely hear about the Block Cost. Anyone running a business, trying to make something, sell something, or even gamble, will measure the Costs vs. Reward. The cost of acquiring a customer, the cost of the beer you just sold, etc. This is something that is factored into every decision you make. However, I have rarely/never heard of the Block Cost. Maybe I've been living under a rock, and in all honesty I have not been following crypto closely this past 6 months, but I have rarely seen this discussed except in terms of electricity usage, rather than dollars, or btc. So; Here is my very basic estimate of the current Block Cost (if i may coin the term) as at 0505 GMT 16/06/2015: Network Hash Rate: 348,149,825.75 GH/s Network Electricity Usage assuming Antminer S5 (1155 GHs, 590W at the wall): 177,842 kWh/h (maybe, very hard to calculate) Average Electricity Price Worldwide (2011): USD$0.195/kWh Average Electricity in USA (2014): $0.10/kWh Average Electricity in Wenatchee, WA: $0.02/kWh Blocks per Hour (theoretically): 6 Bitcoin Exchange Rate to USD: $237.26 Total cost per 10min Block: 29640 kW Using World average electricity price: $5,779.8 24.36 btc Using USA electricity Prices: $2,964 12.4926 btc Using Wenatchee, WA rates: $$592 2.49 btc Block Reward: Current Block Reward: 25btc Miners Fee per Block (Previous 24hrs) / 144): 0.103btc Total: 25.103btc TL;DR: Block Reward: 25.103btcBlock Cost: 24.36 btc at world average OR 12.4926 btc at USA average OR 2.49 btc in Wenatchee, WA Now, we've all known for a while that mining isnt a get rich quick scheme, and I know that the commnty is working on ways to address this from various angles. But I think the Block Cost should be regularly expressed and discussed in btc terms, so we all know what we're talking about. I feel hedging it in Wattage, or even Dollar values, is a way of distancing and diffusing the real cost. Im not trying to start an argument or anything, Im just curious what people think about this. PS: Most of my stats came from here, or they are otherwise linked. My apologies if they are incorrect.
The Bitmain Antminer S5 Review. The Bitmain Antminer S5 is great in a lot of aspects, but one of the premier selling points of this machine is that it is low in cost, with some second-hand units available for as low as $200. That is a great deal for any Bitcoin miner, let alone one with a good range of features such as the S5. The one thing that all miners almost universally suffer from is ... Antminer S5 for mining SHA-256 - 1.155 TH/s hashrate and 590 W power consumption. ASIC can be used for mining 39 different coins. The AntMiner S5 Bitcoin miner was released by Bitmain in late 2014. It was one of the fastest and most efficient ASIC miners available during that period, and was a contender to the Spondoolies-Tech SP20. However it didn’t last long, because the S5 has long since been outshined by latest models. In terms of hashrate or power efficiency, the S5 can’t reasonably be competitive with modern ... The AntMiner S5 is Bitmain’s 5th generation of Bitcoin mining rig and uses the state of the art BM1384 chip powered by ultra-low power 28nm technology. S5’s are tested and configured prior to shipping to make it easier for customers to set up. Please note: 1. You must prepare your own ATX Power Supply 2 Features Ideal Hash Rate (GH/s) 1155 Default chip clock (M) 350 Input Voltage (V) 12.00 ... The Antminer application-specific integrated circuit (ASIC) mining hardware series – proudly designed and manufactured by Bitmain – has established itself as household name in the blockchain community. Launched in 2013, the Antminer brand signifies leading technical specifications and excellence in product quality for ASIC mining. Antminers, with superior performance and power efficiency ...
Bitcoin Buy Sell & Earn money from your home. Click To Join .. https://www.binance.com/?ref=35173218 Power Setup and Install 2x Power Supply & 3x BitMain AntMiner S5 - BitCoin Power Supply RAIDMAX RX-1000AE 1000W ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire ... Unbox and Setup Power Supply & BitMain AntMiner S5 - BitCoin Power Supply RAIDMAX RX-1000AE 1000W ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS ... My Antminer S5 Bitcoin mining machine was purchased in May, 2015. Unboxing & Setup Power Supply & BitMain AntMiner S5 - BitCoin - Duration: 7:45. Titan Group 134,090 views. 7:45 . Things you can make from old, dead laptops - Duration: 19:03. DIY Perks ...